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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;marriage&#8221; And &#8220;weddings&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/</link>
	<description>I never wrote you great poems, I just meant them ~ Gavin Castleton</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Beth</title>
		<link>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-232</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 07:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-232</guid>
					<description>Proof-Texting: 
All forms of marriage and human union are acceptable in God's eyes -- S/He is a bisexual polygamist.  Well, a transgender polygamist.  If God is neither male nor female and is married to males and females making up The Church...isn't that a general green-light for human-to-human love? or even multiple-humans-to-multiple-humans love? I mean, God IS love!  S/He even loves animals...and plants and inorganic compounds and nonmatter, and anything that can exist within or without a vacuum... So maybe we should all think real hard about what an ancient book (which was written in a different time and to an entirely different culture) says is "right" vs. "wrong" and choose to look at "marriage" as a union of souls (each of whom is a spark off the Great Flame) rather than a proper/improper or sinful/righteous union of bodies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proof-Texting:<br />
All forms of marriage and human union are acceptable in God&#8217;s eyes &#8212; S/He is a bisexual polygamist.  Well, a transgender polygamist.  If God is neither male nor female and is married to males and females making up The Church&#8230;isn&#8217;t that a general green-light for human-to-human love? or even multiple-humans-to-multiple-humans love? I mean, God IS love!  S/He even loves animals&#8230;and plants and inorganic compounds and nonmatter, and anything that can exist within or without a vacuum&#8230; So maybe we should all think real hard about what an ancient book (which was written in a different time and to an entirely different culture) says is &#8220;right&#8221; vs. &#8220;wrong&#8221; and choose to look at &#8220;marriage&#8221; as a union of souls (each of whom is a spark off the Great Flame) rather than a proper/improper or sinful/righteous union of bodies.
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		<title>by: MEH</title>
		<link>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-229</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-229</guid>
					<description>From my friend Allison

Matthew, I don't know Jolene at all - to me, it sounds like she's working out and testing the limits of her knowledge in this new setting. I can see the intention that she starts with - which is a good one - that she's seeking to cultivate a new theological perspective for a historically oppressed people. As someone interested in postcolonial theory myself, and as someone who wants to teach in Africa someday as well, I think that her efforts are interesting and admirable. 

That said, I do have concerns about the emphasis that she places on these cultural contexts, which, if we follow them so closely, rule out the value and importance of our own cultural context, which prize monogamy and see marriage, even in Protestant churches, as an act of union and participation with Christ. 

I totally agree with Jolene on the fact that polygamy is itself an institution in Africa, and I agree that throwing a "Western" spin on marriages to supposedly earn God's favor is a colonizing act itself. But, while the institution of polygamy is there, I also worry about its effects: how does polygamy truly enable African women to be supported (besides relying on a husband?) How does polygamy contribute to the spread of AIDS and other STDS? How does polygamy affect the standard of living in Africa, which, if most people in Uganda (where Jolene's at, right?) live in abject poverty, how does it affect polygamous families where one husband has to provide for many wives, and many children? 

Marriage is an institution because, while allowing us to participate in the love of Christ for his church, it also allows us to participate in a structure that provides care and stability for a family, which is another demonstration of that love and care that Christ does have for his church. Polygamous families have provided that care and support, but I think the question of a husband's love for many women (and Christ's ability to love many as well) is less viable when it comes down to the complications of polygamy in Africa itself. I don't have a bunch of reports linking polygamy to poverty and AIDS, and don't blame polygamy alone for those factors, but they do offer those concerns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my friend Allison</p>
<p>Matthew, I don&#8217;t know Jolene at all - to me, it sounds like she&#8217;s working out and testing the limits of her knowledge in this new setting. I can see the intention that she starts with - which is a good one - that she&#8217;s seeking to cultivate a new theological perspective for a historically oppressed people. As someone interested in postcolonial theory myself, and as someone who wants to teach in Africa someday as well, I think that her efforts are interesting and admirable. </p>
<p>That said, I do have concerns about the emphasis that she places on these cultural contexts, which, if we follow them so closely, rule out the value and importance of our own cultural context, which prize monogamy and see marriage, even in Protestant churches, as an act of union and participation with Christ. </p>
<p>I totally agree with Jolene on the fact that polygamy is itself an institution in Africa, and I agree that throwing a &#8220;Western&#8221; spin on marriages to supposedly earn God&#8217;s favor is a colonizing act itself. But, while the institution of polygamy is there, I also worry about its effects: how does polygamy truly enable African women to be supported (besides relying on a husband?) How does polygamy contribute to the spread of AIDS and other STDS? How does polygamy affect the standard of living in Africa, which, if most people in Uganda (where Jolene&#8217;s at, right?) live in abject poverty, how does it affect polygamous families where one husband has to provide for many wives, and many children? </p>
<p>Marriage is an institution because, while allowing us to participate in the love of Christ for his church, it also allows us to participate in a structure that provides care and stability for a family, which is another demonstration of that love and care that Christ does have for his church. Polygamous families have provided that care and support, but I think the question of a husband&#8217;s love for many women (and Christ&#8217;s ability to love many as well) is less viable when it comes down to the complications of polygamy in Africa itself. I don&#8217;t have a bunch of reports linking polygamy to poverty and AIDS, and don&#8217;t blame polygamy alone for those factors, but they do offer those concerns.
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		<title>by: Kimiko</title>
		<link>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-228</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-228</guid>
					<description>Thanks for further addling my already addled brain. :)  Now you've got me weighing in on Jolene's blog, too.  And, something to know about me is that once I get to thinking hard about something, I rarely find time to stop.  It's quite a problem, actually...so, I'll just blame you when the laundry piles up for the next month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for further addling my already addled brain. <img src='http://greyparty.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Now you&#8217;ve got me weighing in on Jolene&#8217;s blog, too.  And, something to know about me is that once I get to thinking hard about something, I rarely find time to stop.  It&#8217;s quite a problem, actually&#8230;so, I&#8217;ll just blame you when the laundry piles up for the next month.
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		<title>by: Jolene</title>
		<link>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-227</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-227</guid>
					<description>Yeah, ok, not helping ...

Does ANYBODY have a clear definition about what marriage is supposed to be?  It's like marriage just IS.  In the same way people understand parent/child relationships, marriage is just talked about like it IS.  Does that mean that the "right" definition is inherently known to all of us if we just care enough to apply the morals on our hearts?  Or does it mean that whatever culture says is marriage is what it is?  Or ... what???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, ok, not helping &#8230;</p>
<p>Does ANYBODY have a clear definition about what marriage is supposed to be?  It&#8217;s like marriage just IS.  In the same way people understand parent/child relationships, marriage is just talked about like it IS.  Does that mean that the &#8220;right&#8221; definition is inherently known to all of us if we just care enough to apply the morals on our hearts?  Or does it mean that whatever culture says is marriage is what it is?  Or &#8230; what???
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		<title>by: gary</title>
		<link>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-226</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://greyparty.net/2008/01/22/marriage-and-weddings/#comment-226</guid>
					<description>proof-texting... what a crazy idea... and a dangerous one, too.  if one's primary interaction with the scriptures is to find proof-texts to support one's positions, well...

because polygamists can find plenty of texts to "prove" polygamy stance and slave-owners can find proof texts to prove their injustice and so on.

so.  i guess that begs the question "what do we DO with the bible?"  and that... that is a very good question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>proof-texting&#8230; what a crazy idea&#8230; and a dangerous one, too.  if one&#8217;s primary interaction with the scriptures is to find proof-texts to support one&#8217;s positions, well&#8230;</p>
<p>because polygamists can find plenty of texts to &#8220;prove&#8221; polygamy stance and slave-owners can find proof texts to prove their injustice and so on.</p>
<p>so.  i guess that begs the question &#8220;what do we DO with the bible?&#8221;  and that&#8230; that is a very good question.
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